For millions of morning radio show listeners, Charlamagne tha God has evolved into one of the leading voices in pop culture.

From his days at Z93 Jamz in Charleston, S.C. to his current post as the host of Power 105.1′s The Breakfast Club, the former morning show host of Philly’s 100.3 the Beat says he has lived by an unspoken oath: to think and speak freely.

His social critiques, polarizing political stances, and unpredictable interview moments have stunned listeners, led to national headlines, and turned hour-long interviews into bite-sized viral clips.

His infamously comedic and often vicious interviews with artists like Lil Mama, Kanye West, and Post Malone have generated millions of YouTube views, and his recent observations of President Donald Trump and President Joe Biden’s electoral campaigns have taken him to The Daily Show

In his third book, Get Honest Or Die Lying: Why Small Talk Sucks, he is asking America to stop lying to itself.

In the book, set to release on May 21, Charlamagne writes from the belief that the world’s imbalances stem from a lack of meaningful conversation among people, be it our neighbors or politicians. This, he says, leads to the oversaturation of “small talk.”

“I’m not talking about the pointless chitchat people try to make when you’re at the airport or randomly standing in line somewhere. I’m talking about the small conversations people have on social media every day,” Charlamagne said. “You know it’s micro because it only lasts 12 hours. This book is a way to open up conversation with people.”

The Inquirer talked to the self-proclaimed “prince of pissing people off” about the dangers of unimaginative conversations, the balance between righteousness and “ratchetness,” and hip-hop’s role in freeing America’s intellectual chains ahead of his book release and tour stop at Green Street Friends School on May 23.

The interview has been lightly edited for length and clarity

This is another big achievement for you. How do you feel?

I feel good. It was an effortless process because what I decided to write about in this book is where my mind has been for the past few years. I just think we’re in a society where everybody likes to focus on the micros instead of the macros. And because we spend so much time talking about the micros, we have so much small talk in the world.

Is this a conclusion you arrived at recently?

I’ve never liked small talk. I’ve always wanted to have big macro conversations and discuss big ideas, even when the conversation starts with individuals. I don’t want to discuss people, I want to discuss the ideas these people are presenting. Even on the radio, you may [hear] a headline about something, but I want to talk about the broader deep dive into what it is. Like the Kendrick Lamar and Drake rap beef, I don’t just want to talk about the beef. Let’s talk about the psychological aspect of all this. Let’s talk about where this will lead people or the culture of hip-hop.

Do you think your voice is big enough to steer these kinds of conversations?

I don’t sit around thinking, ‘Oh, my voice is big.’ I just think we need to start having more macro conversations. We have to start discussing things that benefit us and help us grow as humans. I’ve been like that my whole life. I always say I’m the perfect balance between ‘ratchetness’ and righteousness, or at least that’s what I strive to be. There’s never been a time in my radio career, no matter where I’ve worked, that I didn’t have voices we could learn from on my platform. From spiritual leaders to political leaders, it doesn’t matter. I’ve always had people you could learn from.

What about people who say you’re incapable of leading ‘macro’ conversations?

That’s their opinion, and they’re entitled to their opinion. You see that a lot with the conversations we’ve been having in politics [on The Breakfast Club]. This ain’t new. The first political guest to come on The Breakfast Club was Bakari Sellers in 2014. He was running for lieutenant governor of South Carolina, so he came on to talk about his campaign. From that moment on, the ball was rolling and everyone and their mother was coming on.

When it was 2020, all the Democratic candidates were coming through. Even back then, people said, ‘Charlamagne you went too hard on Kamala Harris,’ and ‘Charlamagne you went too hard on President Biden.’ The flip side of that: ‘Charlamagne you’re too easy on Democrats. Y’all are a bunch of Democratic shills and never ask Democrats the hard questions.’

Fast forward to 2024, when it’s a large Republican field and those candidates decide they want to come up to The Breakfast Club. They’re choosing to come to our platform, and all of a sudden people have a problem with us talking about politics. You’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. And to be honest, neither one bothers me because it’s all a part of the larger conversation. It’s not going to stop me from having the conversations I want to have.

Moving on to hip-hop, is the genre and culture ready to have these ‘macro’ conversations?

Of course, and that’s why I wrote this book. One aspect of small talk is that we confine ourselves to these small echo chambers for no reason. Hip-hop has always been able to talk about these things. We used to say N.W.A was the CNN of the Hood. So the notion that hip-hop is not mature enough to listen. Says who? I guess that’s why it’s so easy for people to tell us to shut up and do what they say regarding politics. It’s probably so easy simply because maybe some of us aren’t sophisticated enough to know what’s going on politically. But I think that’s a bald-faced lie.

Was there a topic or chapter you second-guessed writing about?

Hell no. This book is about big conversations and focusing on the macros. I want [readers] to have conversations about the things I’m talking about. I’m not saying I’m right or the end all be all. I’m just sharing my experiences with the readers, and I’m hoping they get something from it.

I know your time in Philly was short, but what are some of your fondest memories of the city?

I love Philly because it’s one of the realest places on the planet. Almost everyone you meet will tell you the truth. The brothers and sisters in Philly are very honest, and I think that’s why they appreciated me while I was there. And any time I come back to Philly, it’s always love. I don’t take any of the support for granted.

At last year’s Roots Picnic, you named your top five Philly MCs. Who fills out the ranking?

I have to be objective here, so I won’t give a personal top five. I have to put Black Thought at No. 1 and Beanie Sigel at No. 2. You have to put the Fresh Prince at No. 3 — not Will Smith, the Fresh Prince. Then I’ll put Freeway at No. 4. My No. 5 coming out of Philly all-time, I want to salute the OG Schoolly D, but I feel like I got to put Young Chris at No. 5. He didn’t get his just due but Chris was very nice, and if you’re so nice that you’re influencing people like Jay-Z, that’s big.

– The Philadelphia Inquirer